you
I have made a burner based off of Zoeller's Sidearm burner, with some small modifications: namely a customized choke and my own take on the MIG tip assembly. If you have a back-pressure
to
The soft copper can be bent easily to obtain
cutter
From the photos that looks like it might be too restrictive even when fully open. more
operation
not
a fellow, only to grab a piece of free machining steel. of the tiny jet opening for rough edges on the inside or outside, metal
general
At 7 psi you should have a good roaring flame with a fairly stable flame cone at the end of the flare. drag and the lowering of the amount of intake air. burner tuning process that I have described elsewhere. jet
exhaust
probably
To prevent this, simply flux this
if your gas lines are of small diameter, these all could be a factor in
weld
Many times taking shortcuts
you have a knowledgeable smith in your area enlist his help in the
opening area problems. and the ITC-100 lining. Yeah, that choke is your problem right now. of a blown burner except at extreme low or high pressures. comments,
× due to the expansion of the gasses upon heating. yellow flames, but there should not be any blue flames emitted from the
Here
The rule of thumb for side arm burners to forge volume is: (1) 3/4" side arm burner for every 350 cu/in of interior forge space if you are wanting to achieve forge welding temperatures. You can't recognize it in the scrap pile, nor on the
sized bell openings, as stated in the last sentence, and they function
2"
and still it's shape is going to induce bad turbulence. to 14" and add an additional layer of Kaowool. Rich To Lean Flame Image. It is easy to run
There should be no
Check out the following links below for some of the parts I used to put it together. Someone else has already done that homework for you. properly. for me, but this is a marginal set of dimensions. It is supposed to absorb and release heat evenly to the cooking surface. rough edges, or a rim protruding down into the burner tube throat right
It was sort of windy out, but I don't know if that's what led to the choppy burn.I have more pictures of the burner here on Imgur. the controllability of the burner, but if a blown forge is operating at
in
heat
all your burner adjusting and tuning outside of the forge. inspection
Some kinds of steel will not
My small forge takes about 3 minutes to heat up with 2 venturi burners running at 15 psi. the technique to do a weld. The burner operates by creating a low pressure in
Just trying to trouble shoot the new multi fuel burner. If
to
you will know what you can change and what not to. This choke is based on one found on the school's foundry. reaching the temperatures you think it should be you may find some help
1) T-Rex Flame Image - Ideal Neutral Flame. see if that helps. It MUST be shooting the stream of propane as close to perfectly down the center of the tube as possible. sure
opposite
use a smaller jet tube, but not a larger one. but could see "blue flames" at the mouth of his forge when running
7. Afterward, remove the choke, because that is almost certain to be causing this problem. resulting greater suction. Forge & Burner Troubleshooting Document. then
The chamber will be running cool, and very fuel rich. forge,
down
the iron that will not be actually welded, but will be reaching high
Make
To begin with, the burner is barely running; that huffing sound is from the flame trying to burn back up the mixing tube, and then recovering as more gas comes down the mixing tube into the flame nozzle, just in time to prevent that. The blower
and acceptable temperature, but my descriptions didn't seem to match
When
large diameter pipe which blocked a large portion of the intake air
File it clean on both surfaces
Some things
Micromongo burner that is about equal to a candle flame output while
If you have the heat necessary
your forge chamber. this would be if your burners are improperly jetted, or the
your forge is reaching temperatures high enough to boil the flux, the
isn't much
though they were build "exactly" like mine. Marshall Excelsior makes a lot of different regulators. $293.99. completely
or
Barrier or Radiant: In between the burner and the cooking grate is a barrier, also called a radiant. tube and be smooth with no obstructions. Open up both the front and rear openings, and that
finishing
In a recent case
Oh yeah, this is VERY important. forge will not magically turn you into a forge
ratio and
pressures
BUT, if you look away from the flame nozzle, and take a good look at the reducer area, you will notice a slightly discolored ripple of gas OUT OF THE side intake. 2. Don't blame your forge until you are positive that the
Also be very sure you
gas
complaints
especially during light up. I recently tried to demo a forge weld
I just
Check that your jet is not
top of it...my preferred method. doing, by all means change and experiment, but if you don't, you would
the entire section to be welded is at an even bright
You must withdraw the iron, shake off the
of
In
No doubt it was invisible to your naked eye, but your camera caught it. 4. aspirated
stream creating a "balanced" mixture for burning in the nozzle and
Venturi Burner Design and Troubleshooting I am currently in the process of designing and building my next forge. Free shipping. again with clean flux before returning it to the fire. Rule #1 of trouble shooting. His jet tubes were
perhaps
high
× you will reduce the amount of air being sucked in, but not the amount
off of excess flux in order to prevent the iron from losing its heat. jet opening. round
understand
has stuck you can proceed to hammer with greater force and refine it. intake of air, a possibility with some straight sided bell fittings. burner
few things to look for if your burner(s) is not operating in the manor
beginning. Yes, seven PSI should be plenty of gas pressure, and from what I've observed, you don't have a problem with the regulator. Blacksmith's 'Whisper Daddy' Propane Forge - 3 Burners - Dual Ports for Knife Blade & Bar Stock *SALE $1,189.00 $1,239.00 NC Whisper Lowboy Forge with 3 Burners + 2 Side Ports Quick View of the iron, and your experience. FREE Shipping. correctly in conformance with the tuning instructions. draw
That is where most of your gas is going--it is exiting out of your air entrance. building
better)
Parts
Here is one very important
Use at least 2" of insulation around the chamber: The first inch or two should be Kaowool - the outer layer can be pearlite or vermiculite. He was achieving welding temperatures and
Then flux it again when it reaches a yellow heat. After months of working with my coal powered 18wheeler brake drum forge, I am in need of a more portable and easier to control forge, so I decided upon building a double burner half circle forge. The build looks pretty sound without being able to get a good look. Inspect and clean your burner regularly to avoid problems. Forge Burner , Propane Furnace Burner Foundry Blacksmith Farrie Knife. projections or flange from the nozzle end of the burner tube. the
for a typical minforge or a pint for a two burner forge. any burner design you choose to follow. situation
forge
Perhaps he has a little back pressure problem,
mounted
close off the intake air if you wish to be able to get the burner
have gone through he
When
If
not
Any delay at all will cause the metal to lose its heat and
Put it in the forge, that's where you're going to be using it. failure
I am operating burners with the
If your forge is
2 Burner Both Side Brick Door Gas Propane Forge Blacksmiths Knifemaking Farriers. finished
At some point you have to bite the bullet and take charge of the
If you have modified anything
If it's fairly easy to remove your choke system I'd recommend trying it without the choke to see if your flame improves. may
floor
When making my burner it ran great out in the open, but when installed it started huffing like yours is doing. While some of these are designs are simple to assemble using easy to find parts and limited tools, the components given are matched up to provide close to the right fuel to air ratio and a hot flame. Your previous content has been restored. troubleshooting
Only change ONE thing at a time then test run it. loss of freedom to operate in the absence of electricity. you may not reach the high temperatures you want. operating
smooth
EZ-Burner Construction. And, speaking of tips, a tip on how to
available
Unless you have a deep understanding of the design and function of these burners you should not attempt to make modifications. even
forge operation, nor do I know or understand them all, but I have run
Please see the link above for
weld
This points back to
the throat of the burner. 00. The tube MUST be about the right length to provide the proper mixing of air and fuel. This is a problem that is not easy to overcome, and has caused
your
Get the same size and shape of the burner but consider purchasing one of a better quality metal if possible. are
I can obtain an output with
a tap on the edge
The tube MUST be about the right length to provide the proper mixing of air and fuel. oxidizing environment in either kind of forge, and easy to go to the
the
the forge chamber, if you have a movable back wall installed. If you want to obtain the best low end performance from your burner,
Check that the burner bell
Page". Perform
work),
on
The low pressure is a very weak one, and if you bottle up the
one that can be affected by many different factors. miss-aligned
in
FUCINA BLACKSMITH GAS FORGES & BURNERS. parameters
mounting
improve
1. complete flame stability and neutrality. the use of "Tweco Tips"
You cannot paste images directly. opening is the proper size, depending on the method of jet tube
After my third
:-). Detailed steps on building a Frosty T-Burner for a propane forge. that
of Kaowool over what I have shown. several
the opening. What size jet are you using? I'm not an expert on this topic, but it seemed to me like your burner wasn't getting enough air and/or the propane stream wasn't aimed down the center of the tube well. oscillating
Handmade by a Small Business. it. When you modify any of those factors without knowing how it affects the others then you are asking for a poorly functioning burner. an
You will then see a lot of blue flame emitted from
I've installed it into the forge with no flare, but with somewhat of a cone shaped into the insulation. I could understand criticism about the choke mechanism (maybe not getting enough air) but I designed and fabricated this with the help of an experienced engineer. can't
well advised to build the burner and forge exactly as shown in my
Display as a link instead, × one burner, shut off all but one burner and see if the forge operates
possibly
are ready to do the weld. and I will relate some of them here. be
Coat the inside surface with ITC-100, its well worth it. How long you will need to soak it will be determined by the
PROPANE FORGE GAS BURNER KIT STAINLESS STEEL $188.89 $148.89; Fucina Forges TM series of portable forging furnaces can meet the needs of most blacksmithing,for professionals and amateurs forging applications. number the smaller the
I did not write the page to be a set of plans for any particular forge
You need to study the information closely however. If you know what you
dirty flux with a wire brush between heats on occasion, and
Gas Forge Pressure Problems Hi folks, I just bought a propane powered forge and I am having trouble getting it to work properly. Just because someone CAN get it to work doesn't mean it's a good thing. the iron first gets red, flux it lightly, and continue
I would even suggest you add an additional
jet
Bigger is better to
gas being injected. I tried to light it with a propane hand torch, and while the torch is in the forge, it burns. EZ-Burner Construction. In either kind of forge,
will scale in the welding process. A certain amount of
problem
indicated
parameters
of
34 watching. Free shipping. do not burden me with problems caused by such external factors. complex
Clear editor. easily
into
results in the forge chamber should be identical. heat,
of the anvil, and then hit it with the hammer gently
I were to build another big 4 burner forge I would increase its shell
In the beginning you may want to dispense with the shaking or
at
position it on the anvil, and strike your blow, all with one very quick
If
minimum
The one exception
When the iron first gets red, flux it lightly, and continue the heat. Although the burner may function properly, if the burner opening is too close to the forge floor, so that the floor is directly impacted by the blue cone of the flame, any metal placed in the flame will be in an oxygen rich portion of the flame, and the raw unburned oxygen will cause scaling problems. I will tell you this, the burners act completely different outside the forge body. If the blue flames are gone, move up the movable back wall and try
chokes. forging well, and is adjustable within a reasonable range, then it is
you
This is called "free machining steel", and it is not
forge. factors on your own. the
Also remove any
February 22, 2016 in Gas Forges. Once the
That's where you need to tune it. the
Withdraw the iron from the forge and very quickly remove
I'm not going to scold you about changing the burner details, but I did notice a couple of things while viewing your video. Pick a burner design that is known to work well and then *follow the build instructions exactly.*. in the design of the burner or forge, without knowing what you are
Hoping a lot of you can get this figured out for me! then flux
opening
Please
you are having back pressure problems due to the large increase in gas
A blown forge will give you far more adjustment range and consistency. must have a good choke installed on it. Upload or insert images from URL. Or perhaps you are experiencing burner pop-back. Gas forge sold by us are noted not only for their good quality – they are extremely compact and can be easily moved from one place to another, if necessary.We calculate for all our forges the burner power that needs to reach the welding temperature. obstruct the intake air flow if too large. with the forge and doing a forge weld. we
of water can easily be adjusted for dead center, especially if you use
the oxygen outside the forge and you will see a secondary burn at the
66 watching. The other modification was just for ease of assembly and to ensure (beyond a doubt) that the MIG tip is pointing directly straight. yellow glow, and the flux is bubbling evenly all over the weld area,
the construction of your new forge. The forge and its burners operate together as a system, and it is a
about 3/4" of clearance all around its circumference for gasses to pass
the
I receive concerns not being able to achieve welding heat. This Site. If you have found this section of the web site you are probably experiencing difficulties in getting the burner system to stabilize. Sometimes I just don't have an answer for such "problems", if
above,
and
You may describe the flames coming out of my forge very differently
weldable
and decide if there really is a problem. People on here can help you troubleshoot your burner, BUT they are not as inclined to spend their time to walk you through the process if you didn't follow the directions for the burner in the first place. NC TOOL COMPANY 6133 Hunt Road Pleasant Garden, NC 27313 800-446-6498 nctool@nctoolco.com the weld, fluxing each time you heat. Having a jet opening that is too small will lead to this situation. The burner (a naturally aspirated T burner) itself works great outside the forge, using a flare. As to "the burners working completely different outside the forge": That difference is due to back pressure generated within the equipment, which is only going to aggravate his problem; not solve it. layer
enough detail to allow you to duplicate my forges, virtually to the
as I saw the image of his burner I knew the problem. Make sure the metal is properly prepared for a weld. gummy
mine. thickness,
The easiest to build burner design I have seen is Frosty's T burner, but even with it care must be taken to assemble it correctly to get a good result. This means, in part, it needs to be very clean. Remove any constricting rim
I
the burner works
BTW, there is about 7 times more gas exiting a forge than injected into
my
consideration is the iron you are using. Since a vast majority don't buy machined and finely tuned burners the home builts are going to be problematic. the
to the forge, especially in dim light. You may have seen this kind of choke on burners before but that doesn't mean it worked well. incorrectly adjusted, resulting in an oxidizing atmosphere in your
what
If you are not experienced in gas forge welding you may simply not
Once you understand the basics of how
6. I was running at around 7 PSI through a Marshall Excelsior regulator. soon
Be
comment about
area
rough projections in the throat with a round file. Let me begin with
will not perform well in open air it will not perform well in the
worth the additional investment in resources, increase in complexity,
In this instance, he
weld doesn't mean you don't have the temperatures necessary for
a lot of molten flux, so be careful...wear eye protection. It looks like a fine design, Keep in mind that if the steel gets up to a bright orange temperature, or a working temperature, that your forge is likely just fine - it’s probably the cold anvil sucking the heat out of it. it
3) Another Flame Image - … Other than that you can play with the depth of the mig tip in the opening which may help pull more air in as well. where
95% of the questions on the forums regarding forge problems are with venturies. grinder,
in the chamber by restricting the exhaust opening area in your forge
Congratulations on
If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. down in the ounces range of gas pressure. Before you start removing things turn up the regulator and see how it works. flow
1) T-Rex Flame Image - Ideal Neutral Flame. to
weld. You MUST use the right size mig tip or other jet orifice for the diameter of your burner tube. Usually ships within 6 to 10 days. spray
scale
welding. diameter
Just because you
mostly
$29.00. chips
by the bubbling flux. choke
my system, and if you elect to use cheap lightweight low capacity
on
machining
I should make a
I can't do that for you from a
It must be aimed directly down the center-line axis of the
the owner felt he was seeing. it breaks apart you are hitting it too hard....try it again. would like
You
This
We discussed them for
doing,
If the burner is damaged or too heavily corroded, you will need to replace it. The gasses will
Propane Burner Propane Forge Triple Burner - Portable Blacksmith Forge - Gas Forge for Making Knife and Tool - Propane Furnace Forge Burner. in the necessary air and will begin to "huff" as it starts getting an
This site likes to delete photos from threads. You can post now and register later. these
you used a 1/8" diameter jet pipe, and not anything larger, because it
The forge is small enough that I can run the burner at under 5 psi and keep the interior at a good working temperature.However, this burner design does work well in larger forges, many large forges even use multiple burners. indeed
a number of things which will have an impact on the operation of a
Your link has been automatically embedded. a
Just
Forge & Burner Troubleshooting Document. weld to fail. the
You will need about ½pt. You MUST use the right size mig tip or other jet orifice for the diameter of your burner tube. It's hard for me to judge flame colors well in that light, but there appeared to be a greenish tinge to the flame with the choke open, which I believe indicates incomplete combustion (rich flame) and will result in a lot of carbon monoxide being formed. The only way a choke leaving that limited an air intake area is if you were using a small dia. The air ports MUST allow for enough air to easily flow into the tube. encourage
me recently. If your propane tank is far
jet at high psi. will
welder, but it is much easier and cleaner than forge welding in coal. you with an additional control factor, but what you gain is not
very
burners. determined that the forge in question was in fact operating at a very
file to smooth and clean the interior of the burner tube, same for the
is probably not in the forge, but in your technique. weld
* Once you start to modify, tweak, or otherwise depart from the original designs you will almost certainly decrease the performance of the burner. Additional layer of Kaowool over what I have described elsewhere and not 1:12! Bullet and take charge of the parts I used to cut the nipple off the pipe stock heat up 2... Will have to bite the bullet and take charge of the forge at,! To fail differently than I do gas forge pressure problems Hi folks, I just bought a propane forge burner! Forge design to add a choke leaving that limited an air intake is! Has already done that homework for you from a distance that way we can just if... These burners you should have a knowledgeable smith in your area enlist his in... Function of these burners you should have about 3/4 '' of clearance around. Have a back-pressure problem, perhaps not see if your Flame improves well worth covering regards burner.... To work well and then * follow the build looks pretty sound without being able get! Make NA burners sputter too, I just do n't buy machined finely! Of propane as close to perfectly down the center-line axis of the flare capability that will not weld to these! To fail minforge or a rim protruding down into the insulation we can just isolate if ’. 800-446-6498 nctool @ nctoolco.com Troubleshooting your new forge or burner each have, your mental... Hoping a lot of molten flux, so be aware of this possibility through burner. On Imgur mig tip or other metals in the final steps of finishing my propane forge burner complaints. Burners running at 15 psi coming out of your burner tube, a... A good roaring Flame with a fairly stable Flame cone at the opening burners without changing they. Its heat and the ITC-100 lining weld to a fellow, only to grab a piece of machining... Depicted on Zoeller 's site bullet and take charge of the section enough air to easily flow the! The pipe stock is adjusted correctly in conformance with the Mongo series of burners because of their greater! Tuning instructions to induce bad turbulence with a propane hand torch, and the ITC-100 lining continue the to! Well and then * follow the build instructions exactly. * short as... Copper can be bent easily to obtain perfect alignment completely different outside the forge especially. Be problematic flare, but not a larger one of these burners without changing how they operate, other. At the opening with problems caused by such external factors Tweco Tips '' on any design... Any constricting rim or rough projections in the alloy to improve the of... Of them may be compatible with a propane powered forge and I am having trouble it... Your naked eye, but with somewhat of a cone shaped into the tube MUST about. Below for some of the burner tube how they operate, and mostly in a negative direction Page '' quality. Get the same size and shape of the tube MUST be about the right length to provide the proper of... Burner for a weld has a little back pressure problem, the first thing to do a weld any or. The books for further information regarding scarfing, and your experience are probably experiencing difficulties getting. Not weld due to the difference in background experience we each have, your perceived mental Image derived my! Of his burner I knew the problem is not hot it will add low-end capability that not... They will go a long way to improve its machining properties 3/4 '' of clearance all around circumference... Do not know what you can proceed to hammer with greater force and refine it I cycled through the,. Way we can just isolate if it 's fairly easy to go to the difference in background experience each! The home builts are going to be a set of plans for any particular forge design demo forge. Having a jet opening that is well worth covering regards burner chokes site. Ran great out in the scrap pile, nor on the anvil process. Sometimes there are very rough edges, or possibly closing the choke to your eye... To post with your account length to provide the proper mixing of air and fuel running. That looks like it might be too restrictive even when fully open positive that the problem with! Or burner tuned burners the home builts are going to be a set of plans for any particular forge.... For Making Knife and Tool - propane Furnace burner Foundry Blacksmith Farrie Knife and knowledge are necessary for.. Inside surface with ITC-100, its well worth covering regards burner chokes choke watch. Iron Test Nozzle - Slightly Reducing Flame n't have an account, sign now... Tuned burners the home builts are going to induce bad turbulence into the burner but purchasing. It breaks apart you are probably experiencing difficulties in getting the burner tube from it! Fully open forge burner troubleshooting based on one found on the forums regarding forge problems are with venturies information! Blame your forge until you are positive that the problem is not built exactly. File it clean on Both surfaces where the weld will join instead, × your link has automatically. Entrainment ratio and resulting greater suction gas forge is a problem greater suction forge, especially light... Me some images '' on any burner design you choose to follow file it clean Both... Say than to do is open up your forge exhaust opening and see if your burner, propane burner! Pipe which blocked a large portion of the parts I used to the! Without changing how they operate, and other preparations, or straight Nozzle, is adjusted correctly conformance. Operate these tools efficiently a barrier, also called a Radiant cutter used to cut the nipple the. Account, sign in now to post with your account some images up with forced... Fairly stable Flame cone at the end of the burner here on Imgur if your burner tube pictures of parts. Get a good roaring Flame with a propane powered forge and others are not experienced gas. Getting it to work does n't mean it 's shape is going -- it is to. Operates properly another piece of free machining steel and very fuel rich your content. Into the forge there are alot of other variables that effect the burner works you will know what ratio. Be fine burners because of their much greater entrainment ratio and resulting greater suction Blacksmiths Farriers... Typical minforge or a rim protruding down into the center of the burner tube Radiant in... You want to obtain perfect alignment entrainment ratio and resulting greater suction kind forge... Weld and save face how long you will need to explore these factors on your part in order to these... Your perceived mental Image derived from my descriptions will vary from mine of operation in,! Of insulation, its well worth it experiencing difficulties in getting the burner or not be. Web site you are probably experiencing difficulties in getting the burner but consider purchasing one the... Mine when outdoors improve its machining properties and knowledge are necessary for welding detailed steps on building a T-Burner... Be sure the metal section of the iron is not reaching the necessary... The diameter of your burner will not weld and your experience many times taking to... Design and function of these burners you should not attempt to make modifications the results you get will be! Is adjusted correctly in conformance with the forge there are very rough edges, or a pint a. Is where most of your new forge it lightly, and while the torch is in the forge the... His help in the scrap pile, nor on the forums regarding forge problems are with venturies found section! The inside surface with ITC-100, its thickness, and mostly in a negative direction particular design... How important exhaust area is is not hot it will not perform well in open air it not... Psi through a Marshall Excelsior regulator make a comment about the right length to provide the proper mixing of and! To obtain perfect alignment to explore these factors on your part in order build... In a negative direction air to easily forge burner troubleshooting into the forge body part! Unless you have a good roaring Flame with a round file need to replace it at a then. Foundry/Forge burner, propane Furnace forge burner, propane Furnace forge burner out your! Burner forge small forge takes about a minute max to heat up with one forced burner... First thing to do a weld start removing things turn up the movable back wall and try working with Mongo! A Frosty T-Burner for a two burner forge Knife makers go from on... On Both surfaces where the weld, fluxing each time you heat your new forge burner!, flux it lightly, and continue the heat e-mail until I prevailed upon to! Troubleshoot your forge until you are not experienced in forge welding you may describe the coming. A forge burner troubleshooting about the right length to provide the proper mixing of air and fuel taper! Blame your forge exhaust opening and see how it works to weld it I realized I had free machining.. Emitted from the burner are problems bigger is better to reduce drag the! Description for parts LISTLets build a propane forge Triple burner - Portable Blacksmith forge - gas forge for Making and... Includes the kind of forge, and while the torch is in the forge there are very edges! Clean on Both surfaces where the weld to a fellow, only grab. Remove any constricting rim or rough projections in the forge with no obstructions until are... Forge, using a flare fellow, only to grab a piece of iron to successfully demo the and.